http://politiken.dk/politik/article712999.ece
Ja det burde vel have sket betydeligt tidligere. Det siger dels noget om "tidsånden", men også vestas størrelse og styrke at de er begyndt på det. Jeg synes dog store dele af vindindustrien er for sent ude af havedøren..
Ja det burde vel have sket betydeligt tidligere. Det siger dels noget om "tidsånden", men også vestas størrelse og styrke at de er begyndt på det. Jeg synes dog store dele af vindindustrien er for sent ude af havedøren..
17/5 2009 12:17 le 0
11308 Foreign firms cry foul over China wind power rules
Thu May 14, 2009 10:34pm EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page[-] Text [+]
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(Corrects date)
BEIJING, May 14 (Reuters) - China's drive into wind power has been a boon to the young industry, but foreign turbine makers say China has stacked the odds so firmly against them that its own clean energy goals could be in jeopardy.
China's wind power generation has doubled in the last year and is expected to surpass nuclear within a decade as China seeks to wean itself off cheap but dirty coal. [ID:nPEK336151]
But Beijing is making it impossible for foreigners to compete for "national-level concession projects" aimed at lifting wind's share of the overall energy mix, said Paulo Fernando Soares, China chief executive of India's Suzlon Energy (SUZL.BO).
Those projects, usually snapped up by domestic turbine producers like Shenzhen-listed Goldwind (002202.SZ), will make up about 65 percent of China's expanded wind-power market, leaving foreign firms like Suzlon, Spain's Gamesa (GAM.MC) and Denmark's Vestas (VWS.CO) to compete for the remaining 35 percent.
"I cannot say it's deliberate, but the facts show that no turbine suppliers from international companies established here have been selected," Soares told Reuters on the sidelines of a Euromoney renewable energy forum in Beijing.
"Obviously, the government can argue that the prices of international companies are too high compared to local companies. But nowhere in the world are projects evaluated on a yuan per kilowatt basis, because that takes away your performance, your quality, so nobody does it and no banker does it.
"But in China they use the argument that turbine prices are coming down, but they forget to mention that there are issues with locally made turbines regarding performance, maintenance."
The government seemed more concerned with meeting capacity targets than ensuring the actual flow of power, he said, with the result that some turbines were installed in a way that would make it impossible to generate the maximum theoretical capacity.
An executive at another foreign turbine manufacturer said Chinese turbines were far below international standards.
"Domestic producers are in a bubble and they're not forced to compete or innovate and they can't compete overseas right now."
Goldwind Chief Financial Officer Yu Danke rejected Soares' remarks and said there was plenty of room for foreign manufacturers in the Chinese wind power market.
"The policies are designed to level the playing field. My personal view is the policies are affirmative action," he said. "The customer has various needs -- lower end, higher end. Some focus on costs, some on service. You have to fit your products to customer needs."
MOVING GOALPOSTS
The foreign executive, who asked that his company not be named because of the sensitivity of the issue, said overseas firms found it hard to keep up with all the regulatory changes. Frustrated by the moving goalposts, many were starting to reconsider their strategy, he said.
"Whenever foreign companies meet the conditions set by the state, the conditions are raised again," he said. "If we knew in 2006 what we know now in 2009, we would not have agreed to such big expansion plans." Continued...
Other rules that appear to work against foreign firms include a ban on turbines with capacity of less than 1 megawatt.
"That decision was crazy. No other country has ever done that," he said.
Soares agreed.
"I fail to understand the benefit of this restriction, how a (bigger) turbine is better than one that is proven, working in tough conditions in the U.S. and Europe and which is fully certified ... I fail to understand what benefit this restrictive policy brings to the industry."
But it does help domestic suppliers to compete.
Foreign-made 850 KW turbines are 10-15 percent pricier than Chinese versions, but the gap jumps to about 30 percent for turbines of 2 MW.
China also insists 70 percent of the components for every turbine installed must come from China. To meet that goal, Suzlon has a plant in Tianjin and Vestas created its own Chinese supply chain, although it has said it would have used Chinese suppliers anyway. [ID:nPEK44264]
Despite the frustrations, there is only one China.
"There are things we don't like but the market is too significant," said Soares. "We may have lost market share but we have increased our market participation in terms of absolute numbers. We are happy with what we have got." ($1=6.822 Yuan) (Editing by Ian Geoghegan)
Thu May 14, 2009 10:34pm EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page[-] Text [+]
Market News
Stocks may brake for housing, Home Depot
Wall Street sags on oil; S&P ends worst week in 2 months | Video
Oil falls nearly 4 percent on global demand worries | Video
More Business & Investing News... Featured Broker sponsored link
(Corrects date)
BEIJING, May 14 (Reuters) - China's drive into wind power has been a boon to the young industry, but foreign turbine makers say China has stacked the odds so firmly against them that its own clean energy goals could be in jeopardy.
China's wind power generation has doubled in the last year and is expected to surpass nuclear within a decade as China seeks to wean itself off cheap but dirty coal. [ID:nPEK336151]
But Beijing is making it impossible for foreigners to compete for "national-level concession projects" aimed at lifting wind's share of the overall energy mix, said Paulo Fernando Soares, China chief executive of India's Suzlon Energy (SUZL.BO).
Those projects, usually snapped up by domestic turbine producers like Shenzhen-listed Goldwind (002202.SZ), will make up about 65 percent of China's expanded wind-power market, leaving foreign firms like Suzlon, Spain's Gamesa (GAM.MC) and Denmark's Vestas (VWS.CO) to compete for the remaining 35 percent.
"I cannot say it's deliberate, but the facts show that no turbine suppliers from international companies established here have been selected," Soares told Reuters on the sidelines of a Euromoney renewable energy forum in Beijing.
"Obviously, the government can argue that the prices of international companies are too high compared to local companies. But nowhere in the world are projects evaluated on a yuan per kilowatt basis, because that takes away your performance, your quality, so nobody does it and no banker does it.
"But in China they use the argument that turbine prices are coming down, but they forget to mention that there are issues with locally made turbines regarding performance, maintenance."
The government seemed more concerned with meeting capacity targets than ensuring the actual flow of power, he said, with the result that some turbines were installed in a way that would make it impossible to generate the maximum theoretical capacity.
An executive at another foreign turbine manufacturer said Chinese turbines were far below international standards.
"Domestic producers are in a bubble and they're not forced to compete or innovate and they can't compete overseas right now."
Goldwind Chief Financial Officer Yu Danke rejected Soares' remarks and said there was plenty of room for foreign manufacturers in the Chinese wind power market.
"The policies are designed to level the playing field. My personal view is the policies are affirmative action," he said. "The customer has various needs -- lower end, higher end. Some focus on costs, some on service. You have to fit your products to customer needs."
MOVING GOALPOSTS
The foreign executive, who asked that his company not be named because of the sensitivity of the issue, said overseas firms found it hard to keep up with all the regulatory changes. Frustrated by the moving goalposts, many were starting to reconsider their strategy, he said.
"Whenever foreign companies meet the conditions set by the state, the conditions are raised again," he said. "If we knew in 2006 what we know now in 2009, we would not have agreed to such big expansion plans." Continued...
Other rules that appear to work against foreign firms include a ban on turbines with capacity of less than 1 megawatt.
"That decision was crazy. No other country has ever done that," he said.
Soares agreed.
"I fail to understand the benefit of this restriction, how a (bigger) turbine is better than one that is proven, working in tough conditions in the U.S. and Europe and which is fully certified ... I fail to understand what benefit this restrictive policy brings to the industry."
But it does help domestic suppliers to compete.
Foreign-made 850 KW turbines are 10-15 percent pricier than Chinese versions, but the gap jumps to about 30 percent for turbines of 2 MW.
China also insists 70 percent of the components for every turbine installed must come from China. To meet that goal, Suzlon has a plant in Tianjin and Vestas created its own Chinese supply chain, although it has said it would have used Chinese suppliers anyway. [ID:nPEK44264]
Despite the frustrations, there is only one China.
"There are things we don't like but the market is too significant," said Soares. "We may have lost market share but we have increased our market participation in terms of absolute numbers. We are happy with what we have got." ($1=6.822 Yuan) (Editing by Ian Geoghegan)
17/5 2009 12:17 malurt 011309 er det ikke den samme sang vi har hørt de sidste 15 år?
Produktionen til Danmark har de seneste år været på nulpunktet; men selv en drastisk udbygning vil under alle omstændigheder kun kunne udgøre en mindre del af Vestas` produktion.
Transportomkostninger og -tid må få Vestas til at flytte produktionen tæt på forbrugsstederne og det kan aldrig blive Danmark.
I en regnskabspræsentation har Vestas vist ubalancerne i Vestas-verdenen. Den kan se i den tilknyttede PDF -fil.
Produktionen til Danmark har de seneste år været på nulpunktet; men selv en drastisk udbygning vil under alle omstændigheder kun kunne udgøre en mindre del af Vestas` produktion.
Transportomkostninger og -tid må få Vestas til at flytte produktionen tæt på forbrugsstederne og det kan aldrig blive Danmark.
I en regnskabspræsentation har Vestas vist ubalancerne i Vestas-verdenen. Den kan se i den tilknyttede PDF -fil.
tjooh, jeg ved det ikke, malurt. Den borgerlige regering så vindindustrien lidt som Svend Aukens hjertebarn og har derfor sultet dem ihjel.
Og der er heller ikke noget usædvanligt at store arbejdspladser har udøvet indirekte eller direkte indflydelse på politikken, så pragmatisk er netop politik. Men jeg håber da at dette kan give anledning til at den borgerlige regering bliver sat lidt under pres....for hvor skal alle vores arbejdspladser egentligt komme fra?
Jeg synes spil, film og kultur er blevet overgjort i støttepolitiken. Her har danmark endeligt noget videnstung, fremtidssikret teknologi og industri og hvad giver man dem....intet
Og der er heller ikke noget usædvanligt at store arbejdspladser har udøvet indirekte eller direkte indflydelse på politikken, så pragmatisk er netop politik. Men jeg håber da at dette kan give anledning til at den borgerlige regering bliver sat lidt under pres....for hvor skal alle vores arbejdspladser egentligt komme fra?
Jeg synes spil, film og kultur er blevet overgjort i støttepolitiken. Her har danmark endeligt noget videnstung, fremtidssikret teknologi og industri og hvad giver man dem....intet
17/5 2009 21:07 malurt 011343 ja, akademiker; men der er vel ingen grund til at give socialhjælp til de, der kan klare sig selv.
17/5 2009 20:15 alpehue 011338 Hvor stort er det danske marked, hvis regeringer skulle få format til, at sætte ting igang på VWS fronten ?
17/5 2009 21:03 malurt 011342 efter det jeg fandt ud af i formiddags er der omkring 3.000 MW i opstillet i Danmark, som dækker 20 % af forbruget. Hovedparten er opstillet efter 1995.
Vestas skal helst producere 6.000 MW i 2009.
Jeg tror mine tal er nogenlunde rigtige; men der gives ingen garantier; men produktion til Danmark kan kun blive lidt frynsegode for Vestas.
Vestas skal helst producere 6.000 MW i 2009.
Jeg tror mine tal er nogenlunde rigtige; men der gives ingen garantier; men produktion til Danmark kan kun blive lidt frynsegode for Vestas.
18/5 2009 01:46 Kongkurs 011363 Vindmøller er noget transport tungt stads. Bedst af fabrikere nær kunderne. Så selvfølgelig flytter de produktionen ud til de største markeder. DK bliver kunf orsøgesstation. Der er jo ikke plads til flere møller her....
